My Beef with Integral and Why It’s Changing

Note: After posting this on facebook, I got a huge number of responses from all side. One in particular stands out from my friend Nomali, included below the post.

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I’m slowly warming up to Integral.  And, I never thought I’d see the day, but I’m getting involved in an Integral community.

WTF?

How could a guy like me who has judged the shit out of the “Integral people” be getting involved in Integral?

There is only one real reason.

Integral is getting relational.  At least in Boulder…

That’s right. It’s time to deal with the “Lower left” as they say in the integral world. Ken Wilber is supporting relational development. And, two men I dig and respect a ton are spearheading the project.

The Integralist (a person who studies and attempts to practice Integral theory) has often come across as very arrogant to me. Their mantra has been “transcend and include” yet it lands more like “transcend and exclude.”

I have had three main complaints with the Integral camp.

Complaint number one: It ain’t accessible

Integral is brilliant stuff. And, Ken’s books are not accessible to the mainstream person. And, very few of his followers, if any, have bridged the gap to reach a mainstream person, let alone other highly evolved spiritual people. It’s super high-level philosophy on consciousness, which is part of its detriment.

Integral isn’t going to change the world if most of us can’t access it. Buddhism made inroads and stuck in the West because teachers like Trungpa Rinpoche brought the core teachings down to street-level accessibility. He took off his robes and met people where they were at.

Complaint two: Its people are relationally challenged

Many times I have found myself with the Integralists and heard such phrases like “He’s so green, or they are so green” (while they roll their eyes and bond with each other). It’s said in a very prideful way with the underlying message being “I’m more spiritually developed than you are.”  When I take a closer look at these people’s lives I continue to see major incongruencies.

These same integral people talk a big game about how “conscious” they are, yet their relational lives are as messy as anyone else.  And, even their founder, Ken Wilber himself is known to be relationally challenged. The Marc Gafni story is a good example. Or how about how the folks at Integral Life have yet to acknowledge the new Integral Center publicly?

As you know my chief complaint of us “spiritual practitioners” is that while we have tons of self-awareness and spiritual depth, we still struggle relationally.  More on that here.

Complaint number three: Its practitioners are disembodied

My last major beef with Integral people has been that they are in their heads. Their brilliant minds have kept them out of their bodies, a smart strategy for anyone whose immediate somatic experience is unexplored, threatening, or overwhelming.  This would be no problem if Integralists just owned and acknowledged this. But in my experience they rarely have.

So, because of these three main judgments (yup, I’m judging here), I have steered clear of Integral stuff for many years.  I know, my problem, not theirs.  Yet the impact of their behavior on me remains clear: I have been disinterested and avoidant. I’m guessing I’m not alone here.

So, given my complaints what is different now? Why am I changing my tune?

Integral is getting more embodied and relational.

Thanks to my friend Decker at Authentic World and Robert MacNaughton (now Executive Director of The Integral Center) embodied relationship practice (i.e. circling) is gaining some momentum as a fun, legitimate practice in Integral land.

These two characters invited me to be a part of a core group helping pull off the new Integral Center, what I’m calling the new “relationship center.” I’m psyched because I get to be surrounded with a lot of talented people who are committed to the relationship work it takes to live and walk the conscious community talk.

So, thanks to Decker and Robert, I have transformed my “beef” with Integral into appreciation and respect. Seriously.  Thanks brothers! And, thank you Ken Wilber and friends for what I’m now seeing as a brilliant map and model of consciousness.

And, Ken and company should take some serious notes from these two men who are making Integral accessible. Because of Decker and Robert, I opened myself to Integral teachers like Diane Hamilton who is a walking force of grace.  And because of my 30 minutes with her, I finally was able to appreciate Ken Wilber in a way I was closed off to before.

I am really digging the Integral view and all that it has to offer. I am willing to be a student and simply learn. But, make no mistake. You won’t bust me on the can reading any Ken Wilber book any time soon. Nonsense. Well, at least not yet. And, I’m still turned off by how most Integralists (outside of Boulder) come across.

Here in Boulder I will be promoting events at the Integral Center and hosting my own events and groups there such as The Boulder Men’s Experience, a couples group (stay tuned), and a even a parenting class.

I have clients complain all the time about how alone they feel. That no one can meet them relationally. They long for a conscious community. Now I have a great place to send them. A bold assertion is being made with Decker and Robert’s vision. And, even if the Integral “relationship” Center fails, it is already a very fun place to hang out with other people getting real and learning to do authentic relationship and deep community.

Go Boulder Integral Center go!

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If you want to be involved, just click here to sign up. You’ll get tons of free classes and events paid for and be surrounded with friends who care about what’s really going on and who want the real, raw, you and will settle for nothing less.

Lastly, if you are passionate about learning more about yourself through the vehicle of relationship, you might want to check out the Aletheia relating event in late July! Save that date.

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Here’s Nomali’s very long reply (Here’s her full note if you want to read it and other comments), followed by my reply back:

 

Dear Jayson,

Back in 1996, one of my heros, my dad was diagnosed with cancer in the liver. He survived a mere five months after diagnosis. In those few months, I watched him unable to keep a single bite of food in his mouth for longer than 3 seconds, I watched him hooked up to a saline drip for weeks. Once his tumor finally ruptured, I held a bowl to his mouth as he uncontrollably threw up blood in his final hours. I watched him take his last breath.

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At this time, I used to be a fashion designer in Sri Lanka, and up until my dad’s death, I had zero interest in spirituality, psychology, human development, or anything that could belong in that general arena of study and practice. Zero.

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However, this single event in my life, my dad’s rapid death rocked me out of every single anything that I thought I knew. It had me shaken to the core of my being. It is what suddenly out of nowhere had me asking questions like, “What is this thing I hear about life being precious?,” “Why are we here, really?” “wtf is this world around me and who are all these other people around me?” “Why do I hurt, hate, heal, live, learn, lust, love? “Who am I, really?” This personal tragic loss of my dad unwrapped for me a most shining jewel, a journey of Unknowing, Unlearning, Integrating.

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These questions (and more) had me gripped. Looking back, those questions were like comforting pillows that I could lean on in my grief. They lit me up, and I started to feel a fire in my belly, in my head, in my heart. They eventually led me to monasteries and meditations centers where I discovered and dived deep, DEEP, into endless hours of meditation. I loved the many monks, teachers and “seekers” I encountered during this time and I really began to feel like a new person. I also became a bit of a joyful hatha yoga fanatic at this time. While things were going fine in this birthing of my spiritual life (the gift I got from my dad’s death), I was still feeling like there was more, that there is still a bigger picture to my reality, bigger answers needed for my bigger questions, and something still felt fragmented. I was bumping into walls of an old culture, I felt unseen by most who were around me, I was getting sick of my design business, I couldn’t quite still understand my experience of life quite as fully.

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And then it happened. In a humble retreat center I haunted in a tiny rural town called Nilambe, I came across a book with a bald man on the cover. I wasn’t a big reader ever in my life, really, but something had me pick up that book. I read just a few pages, and, bang, I was hooked. I couldn’t put it down until I turned the last page. Mind you, I had hardly read any books at all let alone those in English. By the end of that book, I was just starting to learn about something called “integral.” I felt like I found a new friend. My mind was exploding, my heart was jumping, my curiosity killing me, my soul was met and I fell to my knees in a whole new kind of gratitude only a few hundred times.

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This one book led me to seeking out more Wilber books. The way that I acquired those books–as there are no bookstores selling that type of book in Sri Lanka–is a whole other story! In the next few months, because of those Wilber books I dived deeply into, I found so many missing pieces to my puzzles. I found deep wisdom and compassion in my practice. I feel I matured a ton. I walked more upright than ever feeling and appreciating deeply my body. I became wildly curious about humanity in those near and far. And I felt finally who my dad might have been, how I could have met him in ways that our relationship could have been dearly richer. During this rich time in my life, I learned and lived my grief ever more fully, letting go, letting in, letting Be.

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Next, that is how I was led to taking big, bold risks. It became clear to me that I had to meet others who lived a bigger life than I could in the old ways of Sri Lanka. I felt my wings were clipped in my own homeland. So, in 2002, because I had read that there was some ‘integral’ activity going on in a place called Colorado, where I have never been to, and knew not a single person, I decided to rapidly to go through a painful process of unclipping those wings. I packed two suit cases, closed my business, hugged my family and friends and took several flights to Boulder, Colorado, USA.

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After a few months in Boulder, I got to meet Ken Wilber and a whole bunch of other enthusiasts. We started several projects such as Integral Naked, Integral Seminars, etc. I met the most AMAZING souls! At those seminars, we would stay up late in awe of each other. We studied, practiced, loved each other. And just like in any start up, in this tiny community, we also struggled immensely. Our human-ness came out in full force both for the best and worst. Plenty shadow popped up, our “faith” took massive hits, we argued, we cried. And now as I look back, I dare not ever have had it any other way.

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So, Jayson, I don’t have to get in to theory or philosophy that points towards a profound territory, but I am sharing this tiny blip of a huge personal story–one that is beautiful to me–with you, with the hope that maybe you will see just how much life I have jumped into, what risks I have taken, how much I have tried to be my Highest, how much more aware and alive I have become as a result of my encountering “integral.” You may not experience me that way at all, but I wonder if you can for a moment step into my shoes.

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And I am not alone in that. There are so many stories of how so many of us moved to Boulder to get involved in the ‘integral scene’ even though we had no idea what we were walking into. We were just blown-away, humbled, and awed by the potential. We asked for almost nothing in return–and in our ‘new-ness’–we didn’t know about organizational development (hence many an organizational collapse eventually). We came with our inspiring stories of how we got here. I remember sweet Jason Lange sharing with us how he would listen to Wilber while cleaning toilets late at night at a boy’s home. The heart-felt, sincere reasons for why many of us were moved by integral and why we moved our minds, hearts and bodies towards integral are countless, Jayson.

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I am truly sorry that you have had such a negative experience of some of us, probably including me. And, yes, you are right: you are not alone in that. While I cannot apologize for others, I will apologize for myself. I feel pretty shitty that this has been your felt sense. And I would feel that way about anyone experiencing anyone for that matter in the way you described the integral community. Personally, I will make myself available anytime if you would like to connect more. Get to know me a tad more . . . No pressure. I certainly never meant any arrogance toward you knowingly.

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Having felt that shittiness around appearing arrogant, I am also holding this whole other perspective. Because you specifically tagged me in one of your your blog comments, I will speak. And I will readily admit, I am starting to write this from somewhat of a contracted place.

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 For those who have not read the blog I speak of, it is here: https://www.jaysongaddis.com/2012/03/my-beef-with-integral-and-why-it%E2%80%99s-changing/

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I wish you, as someone who is a “relator,” would have merely taken a moment to ask me, what had me so inspired? What did integral give me? What has it emotionally, spiritually really meant for me, or “us” as in these people you describe in your blog? Personally, I would have LOVED if you shared your experience of us/integral community with me. Simply put, instead of “judging the shit out them,” what might have happened had you tried on a bit of curiosity?

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When I read this blog of yours, Jayson, I didn’t see any such sincere curiosity.  You don’t even know so many of us and our journeys, and yet when you made such general statements about something that has given me so much, something that has been so precious to me, you diminished my experience like highlighting a whole, huge chapter and hitting “control + alt + delete.” That hurts.

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I am aware you weren’t writing this personally to me. But when you take a community to which I have belonged, I will take it personally at least to some degree. I am only human. And when it feels like someone is attacking/belittling/mocking something that is a gift to me, I find it hard not to want to protect what I love (even if I have plenty qualms too). I hope you can understand that – but I really have no expectation of you to do so, as I actually do honour and respect your experience as it is/was.

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We don’t really know each other that much. However, I have appreciated your work as a teacher for a long time, and in my own way, I have on many occasions promoted you/your work. I have specifically written to you about exploring if there were ways you could have done a men’s group at the old Boulder Integral. I had a great time when you invited me once to one of your men’s trainings. I have spoken of personal difficult events in my life with you. I have welcomed your advice. I am sitting in sadness now to think that the way you experienced me is still probably how you describe these ‘integral’ people: arrogant, heady, disembodied. I am OK if, in fact, that is how I am. I just wish you could be OK with me too if that is how I am, and whether you’d have been willing to also be curious about other sides of me.

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When I first started writing this, I mostly wanted to share how I felt reading your blog, but maybe I will try and respond to a few points you raised here, because I do appreciate you stating them. I will respond only as me. I am not speaking for anyone else in the ‘integral’ world, whatever that maybe. I will fall into using the word, “we” sometimes and I apologize ahead of time if I may actually go into speaking for others, but I promise to be careful. The usage of the word “we” or “they,” generally without naming names will mean many people I know to be safely and fondly known as friends.

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You wrote: “… I never thought I’d see the day, but I’m getting involved in an Integral community……There is only one real reason. Integral is getting relational. At least in Boulder…”

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This has me smiling, Jayson. I am truly stoked that you will get an audience that will truly appreciate you here. I feel it with joy. I see that may happen to many young and upcoming teachers and I wish for business growth too.

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As for getting “integral getting relational,” actually, Jayson, they maybe not huge, but there are integral practicing/study groups all over the world. People who actually love each other and relate with each other. Some groups I know of are just 3 – 5 people hungrily getting together weekly in someone’s home, and there are other larger groups such as in Germany, Australia, Canada, Seattle, New York, London, the Bay Area. They come together in their own version of community. It works for them in many ways and they have their struggles too. Yes, generally speaking, for the most part, integral has attracted introverted, mostly white men, fairly “heady”/intellectual types, who tend to be shy, tend to want so much to grow, tend to think a little too big than they need to. Typically, as modeled by the lead figure, Wilber, there are a ton of Enneagram 5’s, 9’s in the integral community. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

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We are ones who can get ourselves into a little corner and disappear into a rather dense book for several days or weeks at a time and come out feeling alive, then seek friends, and we love to have geeky, integral communion. May not work for you, but can you accept that for some of us, this has been such a friggin tickle? We get so giddy, you obviously have no idea. The thing for me, Jayson, is that its OK with me. Is it OK with you that certain others may do relationship in other ways to your own preferred ways? Of course, I too am of the opinion that we can all learn to relate much, much better. But I am not going to judge someone’s subjective (or intersubjective) experience as better or worse. It is not a stagnant reality out there for me to point fingers at.

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You wrote: “It’s time to deal with the “Lower left” as they say in the integral world. Ken Wilber is supporting relational development. And, two men I dig and respect a ton are spearheading the project.”

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Yep, easily, I will admit that the integral world, with all its depth and breath, has lacked bringing out a truly great and easily accessible relational practice such as Circling, for example. Decker Cunov and others who have developed it, and continue to manifest as fantastic, learning, growing leaders, I’m loving them too. I want to be more like that! And I am really, really grateful and more trusting of the two leaders you speak of here, Decker and Robert, because they have actually taken the time and effort to study/practice integral, and I know that they know that the “lower left” is only one aspect of what we really mean and aspire to as “being integral.” In integral, we hope that we don’t have just one bulging area of practice.

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You wrote: The Integralist (a person who studies and attempts to practice Integral theory)

That just had me laughing in a loving way. From where did you get that definition? 🙂 Well, that is true to some degree. There is also a bigger “integral stage developmental thingy” that would need to be included that I am not really going to get into here. I think we can all just choose to give our own true-but-partial definition to anything we choose.

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You wrote: Complaint number one: It ain’t accessible

Integral is brilliant stuff. And, Ken’s books are not accessible to the mainstream person. And, very few of his followers, if any, have bridged the gap to reach a mainstream person, let alone other highly evolved spiritual people. It’s super high-level philosophy on consciousness, which is part of its detriment.

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Well, yes, Ken’s work is pretty dense and will put most people to sleep. However, how can you just say it is not accessible, period? Can you accept or state these rather as your own opinions? There are plenty of us to whom it has been accessible. There are thousands of people who love integral and have read it in several languages. We get what we do, and leave behind what we don’t. Those thousands may not be enough to make a big world-cultural shift and solve all problems of the planet, but, there are a lot of us to whom integral is, if I dare say, the only thing that is accessible and makes sense.

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Integral is still very, very new. Because it is new, you won’t find big world leaders speaking about integral (although, Bill Clinton mentioned Wilber at a World Economic Forum, and Al Gore praised his work as well and Oprah read Wilber and, well, no need for a fancy list here, but a fancy list does exist 😉 What matters is that “normal” everyday people, albeit highly dedicated people are making lots of differences in people’s lives using their knowledge of integral.

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Just to offer a few examples: Joanne Hunt and Laura Divine formed a coaching school (Integral Coaching Canada) from which hundreds have found tremendous self-transformation and have developed skills to serve others. Gail Hochachka has developed incredible sustainability and international development programs that she has implemented in third world nations (El Salvador and Nigeria). The United Nations a few years ago took on an AIDS prevention program to be implemented in South Africa that was researched and executed by a team of people (including, I think, Barrett Brown) who were primarily using integral theory. That is just a few to name . . .

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There are lots of simple, ordinary people doctors, lawyers, business owners, writers, educationists, therapists, artists who are applying there knowledge of integral into tremendous service in their workplaces. And If I may say so, I consider myself to be someone in my own little way have contributed to developing programs such as the Integral Incubator using my own knowledge of integral theory & practice, which led to my being invited to South America to teach how to apply it to leadership and relationship to over 125 people who have never heard of integral.

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And speaking of integral not being accessible, Jayson, I am from Sri Lanka. I didn’t even finish high school. English is a second language for me (hence the awful writing). Yet, when I picked up a Wilber book, it was like falling into the arms of a loving friend. It was completely accessible to me. I took the time to see what was meant by those philosophies and how I could practice them in my own life. It resonated for me. It saw my potential to grow: personally, relationally, behaviorally/in my physicality and socially. It is the one thing that has most helped me take perspectives of others and to honour the rich complexity (and simplicity) in us.

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What it didn’t force me to believe was that it was some kind of be all-end all. It told me where I needed development and how to seek it. It gave me freedom to choose. If I were needing to develop in my inner spiritual practice, it gives me freedom to go to the Insight Meditation Society or go to a Diane Hamilton weekend course. If I needed to focus on physical development, it gives me the freedom to hit the gym or see Rob Mcnamara. If I were to focus on creating a plan for my career, it gives me the freedom to join a program like the Incubator or a business workshop and work on strategic plans, holacracy, etc. If I am to focus on my interpersonal/relational work, it gives me the freedom to go to a Circling event or a coach like Jayson Gaddis.

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What ever we want to learn, and depending on the depth and degree to which we want to engage, anything will require some commitment. Nothing is just simply accessible just like that. Whether it is math or engineering or buddhism or hair-dressing or psychotherapy or Circle facilitation, they all need some commitment for what is beyond the surface.

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You wrote: Complaint two: Its people are relationally challenged

Many times I have found myself with the Integralists and heard such phrases like “He’s so green, or they are so green” (while they roll their eyes and bond with each other). It’s said in a very prideful way with the underlying message being “I’m more spiritually developed than you are.” When I take a closer look at these people’s lives I continue to see major incongruencies.

These same integral people talk a big game about how “conscious” they are, yet their relational lives are as messy as anyone else. And, even their founder, Ken Wilber himself is known to be relationally challenged. The Marc Gafni story is a good example. Or how about how the folks at Integral Life have yet to acknowledge the new Integral Center publicly? Ego much? Hmmm.

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Yes, God knows (and little me knows) Integral has immense room to improve here as we do tend to just group up with us geeks for the most part. Boy, do we know that. And I don’t think we are as “relationally challenged” as you seem to imagine. That is your truth, sure, but, heavens, you really assume that to be a fact? I think I have already addressed some of this above. Also, seriously, there are people within the integral community that have great relationships, marriages, partnerships, believe it or not.

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There are a ton of great leaders in the world who are not known for their relational skills. That doesn’t mean they are to be judged as less “relational” than you. If they were to be as relational as you are, their lives may have been better (or not), but this cannot take away from the brilliance they have brought to the world and made a REAL difference to humanity.

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• Thank god that Steve Jobs was a heady dude. Thank god that Bill Gates is a heady dude.

• Thank god that most cancer researchers, Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard professors and students, economists trying genuinely to rectify the current mess, that most scientists and ecologists who are trying to understand this fragile planet, techno-geeks who make such things as internet/google/facebook possible are all heady dudes and dudettes. THANK f’ing goodness!!!

• Thank god that the Buddha was a heady masculine dude who sat and sat and sat until life made more sense.

• Thank god that many amazing, AMAZING spiritual teachers that I have come into contact with (and not) such as Father Thomas Keating, Brother Wayne Teasdale, Ken Wilber, Dr. Keith Witt, Jeff Salzman, Diane Hamilton, Late Raymond Panikkar, and more are/were pretty seriously heady dudes and dudettes. Because these folks have incredible power and focus in their heady endeavors such as locking themselves in a corner for years to write a book or design a weekend program, many of us have found our hearts, communities and meaning.

• Thank god my dad was one brilliant heady dude who was a general surgeon who cut open thousands of people, removed tumors, put together broken bones, corrected brain injuries and stitched them back up so they can go for things like. say, a Circling event.

See, Jayson, one of the greatest gifts that integral has given me is the equal appreciation for multiple sides of our being – head & heart, mind & body, sense & soul, individual & collective, internal & external. I am ever grateful to these heady people who have and always will make incredible sacrifices of their personal lives to make our world just a little or heluva lot better.

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And integral gives me the gift of being able to fully appreciate those who are making incredible strides in our heart realm.

• Thank god for the Mother Teresas of the world who day in, day out serve the poor through their love for service from their hearts.

• Thank god for the hospice workers, the healers, the coaches and therapists who sit by the side of hurting hearts and bodies to bring peace and equanimity. Thank god for the Oprah’s of the world.

• Thank god for people like Jayson Gaddis, Sundara Blair, Decker Cunov, Robert McNaughton, and many, many more who have primarily dedicated themselves to relational work, helping people see themselves better and see their loved ones through more loving eyes, and create communities that have potential to help humans be just a little more loving and understanding.

• Thank god for the artists/poets/musicians/rebels who are creative beings bringing beauty to this world from their hearts and imagination.

• Thank god for the mothers and fathers who simply give up a good portion of their lives to raise children and teach them what it means to simply love.

• Thank god for many teachers, a personal friend and favourite, Brother David Steindl-Rast, for exuding pure, gorgeous heart which has become their signature practice and gift to the world.

Integral strives for all within scope and healthy discernment. It points toward 1) health in mind, 2) health in relationships, 3) health in body and behaviour, and 4) health in day-to-day living system and the ecology around us. That is the integral perspective. It works for some people and it doesn’t for others. That is OK with me. It offers many gifts to some and none for others. That is OK with me. It is accessible to some, not so to others (just like every other realm of study and practice in the world). That is OK with me. I just wonder if it is OK with you that I/we may not meet your standards.

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When you point a finger at us/me and assume that just because I/we have been into integral, that somehow I am believing myself to be “more spiritually developed that you are,” I wonder if you are able to see that this whole blog you wrote makes me feel your fingers pointing toward me and belittling me to be less relationally developed that you are. I may certainly be relationally challenged, but I hope you see you are doing the same thing you assume us to be doing.

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I have never really seen you at any of our early integral institute seminars, workshops, events, etc. I have never really seen you as a member of any Integral Life online forums or any such thing. I have not physically seen your presence much in these circles. So when you say you find integralists to be arrogant, who do you actually know and who are you talking about other than the few you might know through the tiny Boulder community? And are you judging all of integral based on the tiny few you have met and liked or disliked?

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There is no doubt that some integral fans start using coded language/jargon. And that can be very polarizing, isolating and not inclusive. Many of us, myself included, have been consciously trying to drop that language, because, yes, we see its negative effect. I would however say that just about any group who come together in a community big or small that has shared interests be it politics, science, math, integral, circling, “authentic relating,” Land Mark, business, economics–has its own language, codes, cliques. When an ‘outsider’ hears them speaking their own language, and if that outsider has no idea what they mean, sure, it won’t allow us to feel like we can belong. I don’t like that. But tell me where it doesn’t happen? And “jargon,” while irritating to some, can also bring people closer. When those within a certain similar field come together, jargon is easy to communicate an idea quickly. When a few others speak your own language, you can feel safe to express yourself in that circle. Jargon or “inside language” is not all bad (sorry, Jason Digges).

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You are a practitioner of relational work. Does this mean your relating always works or that sometimes you might just simply forget to apply things you teach? I am guessing–because you are human–the answer might be Yes. Can you afford “integralists” also to fumble their way through the gap between talking and walking? I can. Can you?

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And when you write “integral isn’t going to change the world . . .” would it come as a surprise to you that some “integralists” (such as myself) are simply using it for our own personal development and within our simple surrounding? Not all of us are running around narcissistically enough to actually believe that we are changing the world or that we got into integral to change the world.

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You write: And, even their founder, Ken Wilber himself is known to be relationally challenged.

 

Jayson, I think that maybe true for you and many others, but not true for many others too. I actually adore his typical “brainy-ass” Type Five (enneagram) style of communication that is also flawed at times (from the perspective of the “fluffy” kinds). And I will also say this. I have watched him for years with visitors. They ask the same questions of him pretty much all the time, and I have seen Ken listening to each as if he is hearing it for the first time. And he will listen deeply and answer deeply. And, yes, sometimes he has also acted like a dick and he knows it. I am not a Ken-worshiper, but I have seen his humanity and humility, fucked-up-ness and flawed-ness a little more than you have. That’s what makes him relatable!  Does he, or you, or I, have to be equally developed in all areas of our lives? Is that humanly possible? How about if his true gifts are in immense cognitive development? What if his gifts are in using his masculine powers of extreme focus and discipline to write 20 – 30 books that have been translated into 30 or so languages? Why does he have to be ‘relationally‘ as skilled and talented as you are? You are both leaders. Why can’t you both give gifts from where you are most talented and still be humanly flawed in many other area?

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You wrote: Or how about how the folks at Integral Life have yet to acknowledge the new Integral Center publicly? Ego much?

 

So I guess you are specifically speaking of Corey, Angie, David, Devin? To my knowledge, that is pretty much the staff of Integral Life (well, there maybe a handful others that I am unaware of. Not sure even if Robb Smith is still a part of it). If you are truly curious about it, it would really only just take about 30 minutes for you to make a phone call to each one and pose to them your valid inquiry.  You know, relate, maybe?

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You wrote: Complaint number three: Its practitioners are disembodied

My last major beef with Integral people has been that they are in their heads. Their brilliant minds have kept them out of their bodies, a smart strategy for anyone whose immediate somatic experience is unexplored, threatening, or overwhelming. This would be no problem if Integralists just owned and acknowledged this. But in my experience they rarely have.

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Wow, the judgement, the attack, and what I experience as your own arrogance, ignorance and righteousness here is just pretty spectacular to me. So much so that I don’t even know what to say, other than it feels like you just really have never taken the time to get to know some of these human beings. I feel shamed here. As for head/heart issue, I addressed that above.

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You wrote: So, because of these three main judgments (yup, I’m judging here), I have steered clear of Integral stuff for many years. I know, my problem, not theirs. Yet the impact of their behavior on me remains clear: I have been disinterested and avoidant. I’m guessing I’m not alone here.

 

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See, again, Jayson, I have been studying and practicing integral since 1998. And I am yet to come across anyone in the integral community (whatever that maybe) who has just insisted that everyone be interested in integral. To my knowledge, a lot of us have enjoyed anyone who became curious and also enjoyed those who absolutely hated anything we had to say or do. What I am saying is, we have always known that there is only a couple of billions of people who are not interested in integral. And that is OK. really. It has not helped create a strong business or movement out of it for most who attempted, but how many are the well-meaning efforts that tanked? I am ashamed of nothing in my own efforts around the little integral world.   Just like in any field of study or practice, some will be pulled in, some not. There is no mystery to that.

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You wrote: I am really digging the Integral view and all that it has to offer.

 

I am not feeling you actually see ‘all’ that it has to offer, but I have no issue with that at all. I am just glad that you are really being served by the lower left, which truly is a place I love too. We share that, Jayson, we really do. I don’t need you to show up in any other way.

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Jayson, I too am in big support of the new center. Behind the curtains, I can quite fearlessly say, I’ve played some roles in helping it come into being. I support its development and wish it success. I also hope that it won’t just be a “bulging lower left.” I feel Robert and Decker know that, as I said.

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Here’s what has me most curious. For you to have written that critique, my curiosity and concern is whether someone from the integral community truly hurt you. Has someone shamed you or made you feel less-than or intimidated? Has someone specifically targeted you in a hurtful way that has left you feeling remorse towards us/them? I don’t want anyone to hurt, feel shame, anger and be treated in ways then don’t deserve. If that is so, I really hope you get to address that, and that we may even hear of it, that there is reconciliation and healing. As a unique and powerful force of humanity, what in Jayson Gaddis was really triggered? That question is what most brings compassion and opening to my heart. That is what I would be honoured to know, if you felt moved to share.

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And with that, I really am stopping. I feel some heart contraction easing up. You reading this big ramble wasn’t my expectation at all. I needed to get it off my chest, defend something that is precious to me and let you know that if you are ever interested, I am here to relate.

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In a very strange and odd way, my dad is now standing right by me. I feel his love no matter how flawed I am.

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Something I loved about my coaching teachers Joanne and Laura was that they encouraged us to write to each other without the need to hear back. So we used to write each other sometimes and add the line, “No need to reply.” That gave us permission in our busy lives to respond only to the extent that we were able to and not feel judged.

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Jayson, I wish you immense success in all you do. I am sorry if my words here have hurt you.

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No need to reply.

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Love and respect,

Noms

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my reply:

Nomali,

Wow. Your post is beautiful. So many layers. I feel inspired, raw, happy, loving and grateful after reading your words.

I feel like I know you a lot more now and am so honored that you took the time to write this and respond so thoroughly to my post, my judgments, my lack of curiosity etc.

I also feel like I know “integral people” more given your experience & perspective. So amazing to hear about your father, his death, your path, and how you got involved in Integral. Wow.

First, I have had nothing but pleasant experiences of you. Seriously. I have appreciated every interaction I’ve had with you and that continues to this day, including this email thread.

The rest of my response is in no particular order, so bear with me…

I do understand the limitations of my judging mind. I get that when I box people in, it leaves little room for other perspectives. And, that’s why I share my judgments. To free myself from my limited thinking and perspectives. If I don’t, I remain alone in my little world seeing things the way I want to see them.

I certainly did not mean to tout myself as Mr. Relational Guy. Hmm. Yikes. I have loads of my own issues relationally and I’m devoted to the relationship path. Again, which is why I share this type of fodder on facebook. It helps me see myself more clearly.

You wrote: “ one of the greatest gifts that integral has given me is the equal appreciation for multiple sides of our being” and yes, that is why I’m digging Integral at least in theory. How can I really accept, deeply in my bones all perspectives? B/c right now, I get that in my head, but it ain’t happening all the way down. Suggestions? I guess that’s the practice right? Back to the practice of acceptance.

You wrote, “It is accessible to some, not so to others (just like every other realm of study and practice in the world). That is OK with me. I just wonder if it is OK with you that I/we may not meet your standards.” My standards are simply holding people to what they claim they are about. If integral claims it includes and accepts everything, but then is judging itself as “better than,” they integralists are not walking their own talk. It’s not about walking my talk.

And yes, I understand that by pointing the finger at Integral, I could be seen as doing the very thing I’m complaining about. And, I am to an extent. I am saying “hey, you guys claim you are about this. But I’m seeing a place where it doesn’t line up.” That feels like me caring about you, even though my “how” or delivery didn’t really land for you and some others like @marc quinn. I would want you to do the same for me. For example, if you see me shame someone, like I did with @Duff on his thread, I want to be called on that b/c it goes against the values I aspire to and ultimately it’s me being out of integrity with myself.

Good point about Ken. Excellent summary and thank you for helping me see him for what he is.

Complaint 3—This one seemed to get you the most. Thanks for sharing the impact—that you feel shamed. That part was hard to read. I don’t like that I hurt your feelings in this way. And, I wonder what this really triggered in you that has nothing to do with me? Also, I see now, how I worded it is passive aggressive. It’s making a sneaky judgment within a judgment. Guess I showed a more mean part of myself there to you. I’ll rework that. I don’t want to show up that way with a community I respect.

And no, I’m not getting integral all the way and I may never. I’m good with that. I digest and learn where and what I want to and I like my pace. I do still want to learn more from taking your class or by learning from others like Rob McNamara, Jeff, etc. I actually am loving being a student right now in many areas of my life, Integral being one area where I am a beginning student. Feels humbling and just right.

Regarding Integral Life you said, “ it would really only just take about 30 minutes for you to make a phone call to each one and pose to them your valid inquiry. You know, relate, maybe?” Your last comment feels passive aggressive. I don’t respond well to that. Feels gamey, like you might be trying to stick me or “gotcha.” Not effective. That said, sure I could call up 100 different people and “get to know them.” And, if I wanted to I would. I might send an email to their staff, valid point.

Again, by owning my judgments, I imagine I speak for many, many people who are unwilling to share them openly. By owning them, I make a big public statement about my limitations and I’m okay with that (even though it burns inside often and I feel tremendous fear). By owning them publicly, I learn where I’m wrong, illinformed, or seeing things through cloudy filters. I don’t have delusions of grandeur about myself or integral. I’m just psyched they have circling and that the Boulder Center is really putting a ton of emphasis on relationship. And, I’m great with them having a “swollen” lower left and I get that you don’t want it that way. No beef there.

My comments come largely from 1) a talk I went to with Ken in 2004 at his house. I was not impressed at all. 2) One Naropa teacher who had a huge influence on me dissing Ken and his work, 3) Comments 3-4 integral folks made about “green” people 4) some in the david deida community where I was mildly involved with for a while 5) dozens of controversial comments I’ve heard about Andrew Cohen and Ken collaborating with him (guilt by association), 6) Hear-say I’ve heard about Ken and company for years.

@robert macnaughton was the first cat that had me at the edge of my seat listening intently about Integral. It was so new and fresh. My own box was in the way of me seeing the members more clearly. And, yes, I failed to mention that “No Boundary” had a massive impact on me when I first read it in 2004.

You asked, “As a unique and powerful force of humanity, what in Jayson Gaddis was really triggered? “Where does this big ol complaint come from? My core hurts of course. My wounds around the masculine (my dad, and other male figures/teachers who said one thing and did another) and organizations (starting with my college fraternity) that never were able to acknowledge their shadow. So, it’s not surprise that my trauma is my path and relationship is my main healing agent at this stage in my life. It has so much beauty, power, and pain in it. I think it’s clear I’m taking a stand for relationship. It doesn’t mean I will do it “right” or “perfect” or have all the answers. It just simply means, I’m passionate as hell about it and believe it to be one highly effective approach to personal and spiritual growth.

Realizing that I will probably rework my original post and add some of this context b/c it might help not lose certain readers. I wonder if I can cut and paste your post at the bottom of my post? Or would you be willing to cut and paste it on my site so anyone can see it from now on?

Again, my intention here is to move closer to you and your community. Not to distance. For me, sharing my truth (sloppy, messy, or clean) is the way I do that. Some might not like it, but some, like you, will at least tell me that and explore it all further. For that I am deeply grateful to you and your way.

Deep bow, love, and respect,
jayson